TV Debate: “Do Muslims Need Feminism?” with Zara Faris

The Muslim Debate Initiative

MDI’s Zara Faris debates the topic ‘Do Muslims Need Feminism?’

The lively and fascinating  discussion was televised live on the Islam Channel on 6th September 2013. The program discussed and debated on the topic of feminism, and whether Muslims need feminism, or whether calling for comprehensive Islamic rights is what is needed.

Guests are:
Zara Faris (Muslim Debate Initiative)
Catherine Heseltine (Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK)
Iqbal Nasim (National Zakat Foundation)

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Investigative Journalist/Researcher for major media. Exposing the truth and police corruption with in UK police service.Certain forces say their motto is Honesty & Integrity One must ask is it lip service or genuinely meant. CO-OP Labour Party member questioning is the party standing for working class of Britain. Trade Union Activist & promoting diversity,community cohesion within multicultural Britain. Anti fascist speaks out against all foams of discrimination.
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  1. THE ABROGATION
    IN
    THE QURAN

    What is meant by the abrogation?

    -The word ” to abrogate “{Nasekh in Arabic} means to copy as when someone copies an article, but abrogation has many other meanings in language as ablation or cancellation, in the quran to abrogate a verse means to remove it, replace it by another verse or to replace the verse verdict by another verdict

    – Ibn Kathir mentioned: narrated ibn-Jarir: the abrogation means transforming the lawful into unlawful and the unlawful into lawful (1)

    How many abrogated verses are there in the Quran?

    Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas and many other scholars mentioned that abrogation exists in a total of 71 chapters out of the 114 Quran chapters, so the abrogation is existing in about 62.28% of the Quran

    The types of the abrogator and abrogated in the Quran

    The scholars of the abrogation divided it into three main types:

    (1) Those with abrogated letter and conserved verdict

    (2) Those with abrogated verdict and conserved letter

    (3) Those with abrogated verdict and letter

    (1) Those with abrogated letter and conserved verdict

    Those are the verses that had been removed from the Quran but their verdicts are still active and valid

    Actually the Quran has many examples for that, of them:

    1- the stoning of the adulterous and adulteress verse
    2- the adult sucking verse

    1-the stoning of the adulterous and adulteress verse

    The stoning of the adulterous and adulteress verse was present in the Quran during the time of Muhammad, but it was abrogated, and it doesn’t exist any more in the current Othman’s Quran, but its verdict is still valid, and currently the adulterous and adulteress should be stoned according to the Islamic legislation

    2-the adult sucking verse

    The adult sucking verse was present in the Quran, as Aisha when she wanted to meet a man, she was asking her niece to suckle that man, and so by that he will be debarred for her so she can meet him freely

    Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas mentioned that: Sahla , the daughter of Sohil came to the prophet (PUH) saying: I had seen my husband (Abe Hozifa) is upset as he sees Salem (a servant of them) coming to me, the prophet (PUH), told her then you suckle him (meaning that to let Salem suck from her, in order to let him be like a son to her , so he will be debarred for her, so her husband will not be upset from him anymore!!!), she replied but How could I suckle a grown up man ?, the prophet (PUH) said : I know well that he is a grown up man, she went and allowed that man to suck from her and came back to the prophet saying : I have suckled him, and now my husband is not upset anymore from him when he comes to me (2)

    (2) Those with abrogated verdict and conserved letter

    Those are verses that are still present in the Quran but their verdicts were abrogated, or invalid, of that type there are 550 verses

    Among them were the verses concerning peace and forgiveness those descended while Muhammad was in Mecca as he was a peaceful man , there were about 124 verses inciting for living in peace and preaching forgiveness, all of those verses were abrogated by two verses of the Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah), those verses are the sword and fighting verses:

    – Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah): 5.” when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the disbelievers”
    – Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah) 29:” Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the last day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the tribute with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

    Those two verses abrogated 124 verses that came before them

    (3) Those with abrogated verdict and abrogated letter

    Those are verses that disappeared completely from the Quran as regards their text and verdict

    It was mentioned that one of companions of the prophet wished to recite a verse of the Quran he had memorized , he couldn’t remember it except only ” in the name of Allah the most gracious, most merciful” so he went to other people, to ask them but they were also uncertain about that verse, so they decided to go to the prophet and ask him about it, then the prophet remained silent for an hour ,then replied them saying ” that verse was abrogated by God yesterday (3)

    – Narrated Aeisha:” the Confederates chapter (Surat Al-Ahzab) was recited during the time of the prophet up to two hundred verses, then when Othman wrote the Quran, we didn’t find except 73 verses “(4)

    – Narrated Omer: “Actually big parts of the Quran had gone, and not present now “(4)

    Those are the verses with their text disappeared completely from the Quran and also their verdicts are not present any more

    Hazardousness of the abrogation:

    There is serious Hazardousness for the abrogation

    (1) The existence of abrogation in the Quran is conflicting with other verses as:

    – The Cattle chapter (Surat Al-An’am) 34:” none can alter the words of Allah”
    And The Cave chapter (Surat Al-Kahf) 27:”None can change his words”

    (2) The abrogation is conflicting with the concept of the conserved plate

    – The Big Stars chapter (Surat Al-Burooj) 21, 22:”This is a Glorious Quran, in Lauh Mahfûz (Preserved Tablet)

    Does the concept of the abrogator and abrogated, changing in the Quran verses, canceling and abating them accord with the verity of the Quran being infinite in a conserved tablet?

    So did the cancellation or change happen also in the conserved tablet?

    Or had the conserved tablet revised or modified versions?

    And when the prophet forgot some verses, aren’t they supposed to exist in the conserved tablet, so why He didn’t send Gabriel again to remind him with what he had forgotten

    (3) The abrogation is conflicting with:

    The Rocky Tract chapter (Surat Al-Hijr) 9:

    ” It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (the Quran) and surely, we will guard it”

    So according to the Quran, God guards his words from changing or alternation, and what is the abrogation? It is nothing but changing and alternation of the Quran, so how did that happen?
    (4) the most serious hazardousness of the abrogation is in the verse of the women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’) 82:

    ” Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction.”

    Isn’t enough to have 550 Quran verses, that had been abrogated, changed, or replaced, from the Quran , to prove the presence of much contradiction, and to satisfy the requirement set forth by the verse

    “Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction”

    Some claim that the abrogation exists also in the Holy Bible, as the Christ abrogated the Old Testament

    The word abrogation was not mentioned at all in the Bible
    The Christ said very clearly:

    “I did not come to annul, but to fulfill” Matthew 5:17

    If a child who was in the primary school , grows up and gets into the high school, do they cancel for him what he had learned in the primary school?, of course not, but they will just complete the knowledge for him as he grows up
    In the Old Testaments there were some legislations and symbols as regarding the sacrifices and other things, those were fulfilled in the Christ, so they are no more valid by the coming of the Christ, and the Christ came and completed everything and gave the legislation of perfection

    (1) Ibn Kathir exegesis (Tafsir) part 1, page 104
    (2) The abrogator and abrogated, by Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas page 124
    (3) The abrogates of the quran, by Jamal Al-Din Ibn Al- Jozy, page 589
    (4) The perfection in the quran’s sciences, by Jalal Al-Din Al-Syouty, part 2, page 26

    THE CONCEPT OF ABROGATION

    What is the meaning of Abrogation in the Quran?

    In fact it has two meanings: linguistic meaning and conventional meaning

    The linguistic meaning is the cancellation, ablation or nullification of a verse or a verdict from the Quran

    And the conventional meaning was that meaning thoroughly studied by the Islamic scholars.

    And I am as a studier and transmitter of the knowledge without making any personal opinion in Islam will convey what was said by the Islamic scholars

    (1) Ibn Kathir said: narrated from ibn-Jarir commenting on the verse of The Cow chapter (Surat Al-Baqarah) 106:

    “Whatever verse do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring a better one or Similar to it” saying: this means transforming the lawful into unlawful and the unlawful into lawful, the permissible into impermissible and the impermissible into permissible ‘ (1)

    (2) Imam Al-Nasfy said: the exegesis of abrogation”{Nasekh} is the change or the termination of its judicial adjudgment (2)

    It was mentioned in the Thunder chapter (Surat Ar-Ra’d’) verse 39:

    “Allah blots out what He wills”

    Actually that verse is adding a new meaning to the abrogation stating that God blots out the verses and the blotting in the Quran is tremendous, so God abrogates or abates , and blots out or removes permanently, so it has many meaning as the annotators said.

    The importance of the abrogation in the Quran

    That’s a very serious issue, as by going through the books concerning the abrogation in the Quran as: the abrogator and abrogated by Hebat Allah Al-Baghdadi, deceased on 410 A.H., the abrogator and abrogated in the noble Quran by Abu Gaffer Alnahas. And many other books and web sites over the internet, all of those books are stressing on the importance of the abrogator and abrogated, stating clearly that the Quran could not be understood unless one is fully acquainted by the issue of the abrogation

    For example if there is a legislation in the Quran based on some conditions, then this legislation was abrogated, so whoever is ignorant about the occurrence of the abrogation will keep following the first legislation and he is unaware with the new one.

    There was a story happened with Ali bin Abe-Taleb:

    “one day he entered a mosque in Al-Kophah, he saw inside a man known as Abdul-Rahman bin Dab, he was a friend of Abe-Mosa Al-Asharee, the people were gathered around him in rounds, while he was preaching in the mosque, when Ali bin Abi-Taleb heard him, he didn’t like his sayings, then he asked the man: Do you know about the abrogator and abrogated? He replied: No! Then he told him: you perished, and caused the others to perish…Then he pinched his ear, expelling him from the mosque and threatening him not to come again to the mosque” (3)

    So man should be well acquainted with the abrogator and abrogated to know the rules of the Quran

    From where came the concept of the abrogator and abrogated in the Quran?

    This is very important and serious question, as there are very obvious verses in the Quran speaking frankly about the existence of abrogation for some verses, the most famous of them are:

    – The Cow chapter (Surat Al-Baqarah) 106:”Whatever verse do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring a better one or Similar to it”

    – The Bees chapter ( Surat An-Nahl) 101:” And when We change a verse in place of another, and Allah knows the best of what He sends down, they say: “You are but a, liar” Nay, but most of them know not.”

    – Thunder Chapter (Surat Ar-Ra’d) 39: “Allah blots out what He wills and confirms what He wills. And with Him is the mother (origin) of the book”

    – The Pilgrimage Chapter (Surat Al-Hajj) 52″ Allah abrogates that which Satan throws in”

    Those are the most famous verses confirming the existence of abrogation in the Quran
    For those saying that God is All-knower and He is Al-mighty, to do whatever He wishes,
    God is Almighty, He can do whatever He wishes, but He is respecting man’s mind , that he created , so He could never do what is conflicting with the mind , He may do what is superior to the mind, but never against the mind, and in the same time He is allowing us to realize the wisdom of what He did, and being a human , God gave me a mind to think and I should understand and study , He can do whatever He wishes , but not contradicting with the logic and sound reasoning , as we can realize those things and the reasons behind them

    What is meant by “cause to be forgotten”?

    It means that God caused the messenger to forget those verses, as in the converses it was mentioned that the prophet Muhammad, prophet of Islam was forgetting some Quran verses

    In Sahih Al-Bukhari (converse number 5092)

    “narrated Aisha” I heard the prophet peace upon him listening to a man who was reciting a chapter from the Quran by night, he said:” God’s pity upon him, he reminded me by a verse so and so caused to be forgotten for me from chapter so and so”

    Some say he said that he is a human so he is liable to forget things.
    Actually it was not mentioned in the verse that he forgot some verses, but God caused him to forget those verses

    Is it possible that God caused his prophet to forget the verses He himself descended onto him???

    We are asking the Islamic scholars and specialists, why God gave the prophet the verses first, then He caused him to forget them, we are not aspersing in the Quran or challenging it but we are asking a question that is in the mind of many people, the Islamic books are available everywhere and we are studying to understand, so we are demanding from any eminent Al-Azhar scholar to tell us that we are mistaking , and what is the truth

    – In Sahih Muslim “narrated Aeisha” the prophet (PUH) was listening to a man reciting a Quran in the mosque, he said: “God’s pity upon him, he reminded me by a verse that caused to be forgotten for me” (4)

    – Ibn Kathir wrote: narrated ibn-Jarir, narrated Al-Hassen, his saying “the prophet (PUH) read a part of the quran, and then he forgot” and narrated Ibn Abbas “Of the revelation coming on the prophet (PUH) by night, he forgot that by the morning ‘ (5)

    We are asking wouldn’t it be better for God who gave him the verses then caused him to forget them , not to give them to him from the beginning.

    All of those are questions needing answers for man who is respecting his mind and think to reach the truth

    The problem is that people took those things as postulates; they are saying God had said, and the prophet said, without thinking

    And if God caused the prophet himself to forget, then what would He do with those people who were Quran memorizers?

    We are waiting for answers from the respectful eminent scholars for those questions existing in the mind of people

    What was meant by “a better one”?

    The question which imposes itself here is: Is there a verse better than another verse? Or in other words is there something nice and something better? If it is so, we can say then that there are bad words of God, God forbids that bosh

    And if there are words better than others, then why God didn’t descend them from the beginning?

    Is there preferability In God’s revelation?

    According to the Quran. There is preferability in the verses, and the problem is that He says “a better one or Similar to it” so if he will bring a similar verse, then why he didn’t remind him with first verse as long as the second verse is similar to it?
    Those are questions that come in mind,

    Then what are the words present in the conserved tablet?

    That’s a very big and complicated issue

    What were the words written in the conserved tablet?

    Were they the words who had been abrogated or caused to be forgotten?

    Or were they the new words, the better words that replaced what had been abrogated by abating or forgetting?

    They are all questions with no answers

    Do Muslims believe in the occurrence of the abrogation?

    Here are some of the Muslim jurisprudents’ opinions regarding the abrogation:

    – Ibn Kathir said “all Muslims agreed on the possibility of abrogation in the verdicts of God” (6)

    – Imam Al-Nasfy said: “it is permissible to have abrogation in the Quran and Sunnah as adding to the text or forgetting some texts from the mind (7)

    – The Islamic encyclopedia, part 3, page 9900 said” the abrogation is an intentional compact Godly act, predetermined from the beginning of time” (8)

    On Al-Azhar site over the internet, there is a very important article by Mr. Abdul-Fattah Mahmoud Idrees about the abrogator and abrogated, he said: most of the jurisprudence scholars agreed on the probability of the abrogation logically and its occurrence actually

    – Abe Gaffer Alnahas, said: “as there are some legislations in the Quran necessitated the abrogation, so the abrogation in the Quran is a real issue “(9)

    – Alnahas also said : “we have to mention that the denial of abrogation in the Quran is an old issue provoked by Abu Muslim Al-Asfahany (10)

    (1) Ibn Kathir exegesis (Tafsir) part 1, page 104

    (2) Imam Al-Nasfy exegesis, part 1, page 116

    (3) “the abrogator and abrogated “by Hebat Allah Al-Baghdadi, page 12

    (4) Sahih Muslim, converse number 1874

    (5) Ibn Kathir exegesis (Tafsir) part 1, page104

    (6) Ibn Kathir exegesis (Tafsir) part 1, page 105

    (7) Imam Al-Nasfy exegesis, part 1, page 116

    (8) The Islamic encyclopedia, part 3, page 9900

    (9) “the abrogator and abrogated “by Abe Gaffer Alnahas, page 5

    (10) “the abrogator and abrogated “by Abe Gaffer Alnahas, page 7

    EXAMPLES OF THE ABROGATED

    Some say that the abrogation in the Quran is confined only to the commandments and forbiddances, as: do this, and don’t do that.

    That is the opinion of some jurisprudents

    Even if we agree that it is confined only to commandments and forbiddances, as for example:

    the Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah) 5 and 29, those two verses inciting for fighting, that verse known as the sward verse abrogated 124 verses as said by all the abrogation scholars

    In the Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah) 29:

    ” Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah (tribute) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

    That’s a commandment, fight…and that commandment abrogated 124 verses concerning peaceableness, among those verses:

    -the spider chapter (Surat Al-Ankabut) 46:

    “And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jewish and Christian), unless in a way that is better in manner … and we believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One”
    And also The Disbelievers chapter (Surat Al-Kaafiroon) 6:

    “To you be your religion, and to me my religion.”

    Here we notice that one verse abated all the previous verses, and all the conflicts nowadays between the Muslims, Christians and Jews are because of that commandment in that verse.

    Where is God? who after giving his promises to the Christians , then He command to kill them , and how possible to have verses that raised the Christian to the most dignified state, then to command for killing them later on

    As the Quran mentioned

    “I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve (the polytheisms) till the Day of Resurrection.” {the Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 55}

    In fact Islam in Mecca was peaceful, but in Al-Medina those verses came. Why?? We are asking why?

    Is it possible that God is partial for those following that particular religion, so whoever follows it will gain the satisfaction of God, and those who don’t follow it will be killed?

    Is there any abrogation in the Quran away from the commandments and forbiddances?

    Definitely there were many abrogated verses not from the commandments and forbiddances

    Examples for those verses are:

    – The converse of great Gharaneek (great idols)
    In the Pilgrimage Chapter (Surat Al-Hajj) 52

    ” Allah abrogates that which Satan throws in”

    All the annotators said that when the messenger was reciting The Star chapter (Surat An-Najm), saying:

    “Have you then considered Al-Lât, and Al-‘Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs) And Manât (another idol), the other third?, those great Gharaneek (great idols), Satan put onto his tongue to say: those great Gharaneek (great idols), their intercession are well accepted, so all the people of Mecca prostrated after him, as he prostrated too !!!, notice that he was telling that those idols named Al-Lât, Al-‘Uzza and Manât are great , and their intercession are accepted , how for those idols to have a dignity and accepted intercession , the people of Mecca at that time were delighted as the prophet Muhammad professed their gods and all prostrated , even the elderly man who couldn’t kneel down, he took some dust from the ground and placed over his forehead, then they sent to the immigrants in Al-Habasha ( Ethiopia) to return back.
    After Muhammad said that, in that night Gabriel came to him, telling him that those words were put by Satan unto his tongue, so the prophet grieved so much, he went back to the people telling them that those words are from Satan, and that was meant by “Allah abrogates that which Satan throws in”

    Here the abrogation is not in a commandment or forbiddance. And there is abrogation for what Satan throws in

    So, those saying that abrogation is confined only to the commandments and forbiddances are mistaking

    There were also other verses concerning the holy books preceding the Quran
    The Mecca verses were applauding the holy books prior to Islam, as:

    – The Table Spread chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah) 43:” How do they come to you for decision while they have the Taurât, in which is the decision of Allah”

    – The Table Spread chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah) 47:” Let the people of the Injeel (Bible) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. ”

    – The Table Spread chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah) 48: “And we have sent down to you the Book in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it”

    Then after all that profession in the Taurât and Bible and applauding them, some verses came and abrogated all of that as:

    – Women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’) 46:” Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from their right places”

    – The Cow chapter( Surat Al-Baqarah) 75:” Do you covet that they will believe in you ,while a party of them used to hear the word of Allah , then falsify it after they understood it, and they know that ”

    This last verse in spite of explicating that the falsification was in the interpretation and not the text , yet it abrogated the preceding books , and that was not a commandments or forbiddances, it was concerning books, believes and faith

    It was mentioned in The Rocky Tract chapter (Surat Al-Hijr) 9:

    “It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (reminder) and surely, we will guard it”

    So is it logic that God guarded his words in certain time, while He forgot his other words in the other holy book in another time?

    That’s a proposed question, it was mentioned also about the Bible in its two testaments as being a reminder , a light and a guidance from God , so How did He guarded the Quran , while he couldn’t guard the Taurât and the Bible?? That’s a big question mark that the Islamic mind should think about; there was abrogation of the religions previously respected by the Quran itself as in:

    – the Cow chapter( Surat Al-Baqarah) 62:”Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

    – the spider chapter (Surat Al-Ankabut) 46:” And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jewish and Christian), unless in a way that is better in manner … and we believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One”

    – The women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’) 136:” whosoever disbelieves in Allah, His Angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last day, indeed he has strayed far away”
    Those verses had been also abrogated by other verses as:

    – The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 19.” Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. ”

    – The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 85.” And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”

    Here there is cancellation of religions and not commandments or forbiddances.

    I am asking, now we want to live in peace in this world, there is no place for more wars, if those Muslim extremities read those verses saying fight and kill the Christians and Jewish, they are disbelievers and polytheisms, and the religion for God is Islam, and they are saying that the sword verse abrogated the peaceful verses, is there any peacefulness in that?

    Isn’t that the cause of terrorism?

    We want explanations

    We should use the mind granted to us by God as a gift to the mankind.

    The Islam of Mecca also allowed the religious freedom for the other religions, but the Islam of Medina banned that and abrogated it? Why??

    As in The cattle chapter (Surat Al-Baqarah) 256:”There is no compulsion in religion”
    That what we are hearing in the media and newspapers, while in fact, in the real life is totally different, why?

    Because it was abrogated!

    Here are some of the verses that banned the religious freedom

    – The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 19:”Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam

    – The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 85:”And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers”

    – Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah) 29:” Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

    So the freedom was completely cancelled.

    There are also verses concerning those who changed their religions.

    – The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 20:” if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message”

    – The Table Spread chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah 13:” forgive them, and overlook their misdeeds”

    – The Spoils of War chapter (Surat Al-Anfal) 61:” But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it,”

    Those verses we are hearing in the media, but that was in the past, and for those who don’t know the abrogator and abrogated, they don’t know that those verses were abrogated

    Those verses were abrogated by:

    – The women Chapter (Surat Al-Nisa) 89:”if they turn back, hold of them and kill them wherever you find them”

    Notice the difference between The Family of Imran chapter (Surat Aal-‘Imran) 20 and the women Chapter (Surat Al-Nisa) 89, the difference is very obvious, what do you need more than that , those verses must be explicated by the respectable scholars to tell us what they mean and what are the exegesis, if there is exegesis, also in

    – Muhammad chapter (Surat Muhammad) 35:”So be not weak and ask not for peace, while you are having the upper hand” meaning that you are superior to other people and never ask for peace

    That’s the real danger!

    We are asking does God want for 80% of his creation to be killed. As we know that Muslims represents about 21% of the world population?

    And the more serious question is:

    How does God the all-just and the only condemner ask people to classify each other?

    Isn’t it possible that if you are patient and leaves the disbeliever and the polytheist he might believe in your religion later, so you should preach and teach him and not kill him?

    In the Quran there is a verse saying that you guide whoever you want, and God guides whoever He wants, but that verse is also abrogated.

    Some are claiming that abrogation is present in all religions and not only the Quran:

    -Imam Jalal El-Din Al- Syouty said “God made the abrogation pertained to this nation only, meaning the Islamic nation, and all Islamic scholars agreed that the abrogation is pertained to Islam and the Quran only” (1)

    Is there abrogation in Christianity?

    They said that the Christ by his preaching on the mountain had abrogated the Old Testament verdicts, as he said

    “You have heard that it was said to the ancients, But I say to you” in fact that needs understanding and not arbitrary judgment, as the Christ said: I did not come to annul the Law, but to fulfill the Law”(Matthew 5:17) and annulling means abrogation

    So He himself, said that: I did not come to abrogate the Law, why?

    Because the law in the Old Testament was do and don’t do , but it didn’t treat the nature of man , and the Christ came to treat the human nature , to give the new heart and the new nature and to change man completely

    The New Testament says, “if someone in the Christ he is a new creation.”

    He didn’t give commandments and forbiddances, as the Christ changes mans nature when he gets into his heart and lives inside it, he is saying:
    “I stand at the door and knock: If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will enter to him, and I will dine with him, and he with Me”,

    meaning for man to open the door of his heart with his will and there will be a happy life with him

    The Bible said:

    “Your words were found and I ate them; and your word was to me the joy and gladness of my heart.” (Jeremiah 15:16)

    When a Christian says:

    O Lord help me I need you, I am tired and confused , I am opening the door of my heart with my will to you , telling you to come into my life and change me, change my heart and mind, change my nature from a wolf to a humble lamb and a new man will come.

    The examples for that change are tremendous

    The door of repentance is open for everyone, not only for the Christian, anyone can do that.

    The New Testament says:

    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life”.

    God is ready to accept anyone from any state he is in , as he is his creation, and very precious to him , God is keen for his salvation, the Christ is ready to save man and change all his life when man asks for that and accept the work of God in him

    In Christianity there is no abrogated and abrogator.

    Christianity is a spirit and Life!

    That’s the completion of the old law (do and do not) to a life, as the New Testament says:

    “For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ”

    And “By grace you are being saved” and the grace is a free gift from our Lord, he is a kind father who gives his children all what they want, and man has to accept that

    (1) “The perfection in the Quran sciences by Jalal El-Din Al- Syouty part 2, and page 22

    THE ABROGATION – NUMBER OF VERSES

    Actually many Islamic scholars divided the chapters containing the abrogator and abrogated into the following divisions:

    (1) The chapters containing abrogator without abrogated (6 chapters), they are:

    1- Surat Al-Fath 2- Surat Al-Hashr 3- Surat Al-Munafiqun
    4- Surat At-Taghabun 5- Surat At-Talaaq 6- Surat Al-A’laa

    (2) The chapters containing abrogator and abrogated (25 chapters), they are:

    1- Surat Al- Baqarah 2- Surat Aal-‘Imran 3- Surat An- Nisa’
    4- Surat Al- Ma’idah’ 5- Surat Al- Anfal 6- Surat At-Taubah
    7- Surat Ibrahim 8- Surat Al- Kahf 9- Surat Maryam
    10- Surat Al -Baqarah 11-Surat Al-Hajj 12- Surat An-Nur
    13- Surat Al-Furqan 14- Surat Ash-Shu’ara’ 15- Surat Al- Ahzab
    16- Surat Saba’ 17- Surat Ghafir 18- Surat Ash-Shura
    19- Surat Adh-Dhariyat 20- Surat At-Tur 21- Surat Al-Waqi’ah
    22- Surat Al-Mujadilah 23- Surat Al -Muzzammil 24- Surat Al-Kauthar
    25- Surat Al-Asr

    (3) The chapters containing abrogated without abrogator (40 chapters), they are:

    1- Al-An’am 2- Al-A’raf 3- Yunus
    4- Hud 5- Ar-Ra’d 6- Al-Hijr
    7- An-Nahl 8- Al-Isra’ 9- Al-Kahf
    10- Ta-Ha 11- Al-Mu’minun 12- An-Naml
    13- Al-Qasas 14- Al-Ankabut 15- Ar-Rum
    16- Luqman 17- As-Sajdah 18- Fatir or Al-Mala’ikah
    19- As-Saffaat 20- Saad 21- Az-Zumar
    22-Az-Zukhruf 23- Ad-Dukhan 24- Al- Jathiyah
    25- Al-Ahqaf 26- Muhammad 27-Qaf
    28- An-Najm 29- Al-Qamar 30-Al-Mumtahanah
    31- Al-Qalam or Noun 32- Al-Ma’arij 33- Al-Muddathir
    34- Al-Qiyamah 35- Al-Insan 36- Abasa
    37- At-Tariq 38- Al-Ghaashiyah 39- At-Tin
    40- Al-Kaafiroon

    (4) The other chapters containing neither abrogated nor abrogators

    They are 43 chapters from the total of 114 chapters of the Quran

    By a simple calculation we can recognize the chapters containing the abrogator
    And abrogated
    Either by subtracting 114 – 43 = 71 chapters
    Or by the summation of the chapters containing abrogation
    6 + 25 + 40 = 71 chapters
    Actually the issue of abrogation is very serious problem in Islam, as the Quran is saying in the Women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’) 82:

    “Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction”

    Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Ibiary said about the verses containing abrogator and abrogated “there are around 144 sites had been counted (1)

    He mentioned only 60 sites as an example, they are:

    1- (20 chapters) in each 1 verse had been changed = 20 verses
    2- (18 chapters) in each 2 verses had been changed = 36 verses
    3- (6 6chapters) in each 3 verses had been changed = 18 verses
    4- (3 chapters) in each 4 verses had been changed = 12 verses
    5- (2 chapters) in each 5 verses had been changed = 10 verses
    6- (2 chapters) in each 6 verses had been changed = 12 verses
    7- (2 chapters) in each 7 verses had been changed = 14 verses
    8- (1 chapter) in which 8 verse had been changed = 8 verses
    9- (1 chapter) in which 9 verses had been changed = 9 verses
    10- (1 chapter) in which 10 verses had been changed = 10verses
    11- (1 chapter) in which 11 verses had been changed = 11 verses
    12- (1 chapter) in which 15 verses had been changed = 15 verses
    13- (1 chapter) in which 24 verses had been changed = 24 verses
    14- (1 chapter) in which 30 verses had been changed = 30 verses
    ___________

    The sum is 229 verses

    For example:

    – In Surat Yunus: 8 verses – in Surat Al-Ma’idah’: 9 verses
    – in Surat Aal-’Imran: 10 verses – in Surat At-Taubah: 11 verses
    – In Surat Al-An’am:15 verses – in Surat An-Nisa’: 24 verses
    – In Surat Al-Baqarah: 30 verses

    Those are the abrogated verses in 60 sites only out of 144 sites mentioned by Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Ibiary

    Types of the abrogator and abrogated:

    (1) Those with abrogated letter and conserved verdict
    (2) Those with abrogated verdict and conserved letter
    (3) Those with abrogated verdict and letter

    (1) Those with abrogated letter and conserved verdict

    First: the stoning of the adulterous and adulteress verse

    Narrated on Ibn Al-Jozy: Omer Ibn Al-Khatab said: God sent Mohammed (PUH) telling the truth , and gave him the book , of the verses revealed to him was the stoning verse :” the sheikh (adulterous man), and sheikhah (adulteress woman) if they had committed adultery, stone them”, so we recited ,understood and realized it , the prophet had stoned , and we stoned with him ” Omer affirmed that saying: “I was about to write it by my own hands , but I didn’t do that fearing that one may say that I wrote something in God’s book” (2)

    Second: the adult sucking verse:

    In Sahih Muslim:”Mrs. Aeisha said” among the descended verses there were ten known sucks, they had been abrogated by five known sucks , till the messenger of God died they were among the recited verses of the quran (3)

    Imam Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas confirmed that saying: “Mrs. Aisha was persistently admitting the existence of the adult sucking” (4)

    Ibn-Al-Goosy mentioned the story of adult sucking saying: narrated Mrs. Aisha,: the adult sucking verse, was in a paper under my bed, when the prophet (PUH) was sick, we were very busy looking after him, a goat came and ate it, then the prophet died, that verse was among the recited Quran verses” (5)

    Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas mentioned that:” Sahla, the daughter of Sohil came to the prophet (PUH) saying: my husband (Abe Hozifa) was upset as he was seeing Salem coming to me (Salem was an adopted boy of them, but the adoption was abated by the prophet because of the story of Zaied ibn hartha when the prophet married his wife and cancelled the adoption), the prophet told her :then you suckle him (meaning that to let Salem suck from her, in order to let him be like a son of her so he will be debarred for her, so her husband will not be upset from him anymore), she replied but How could I suckle a grown up man?, the prophet said: I know well that he is a grown up man, she went and allowed that man to suck from her and came back to the prophet saying : I have suckled him, and now my husband is not upset anymore from him when he comes to me” (6)

    (2) Those with abrogated verdict and conserved letter

    Among them were the verses concerning peace and forgiveness those descended while Muhammad was in Mecca as he was a peaceful man , there were about 124 verses inciting for living in peace and preaching forgiveness, all of those verses were abrogated by two verses of the Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah), the sword and fighting verses:
    – Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah): 5.” when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the disbelievers”

    – Repentance chapter (Surat At-Taubah) 29:” Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the last day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the tribute with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

    – Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Ibiary said: there were about 144 verses into them about 229 abrogated verdicts with conserved text, those were the verses concerning peace and forgiveness

    – Ibn Al-Araby said that all what came in the quran of the peace and forgiveness verses had been abrogate by the sward verses (7)

    (1) “The history of the quran”by Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Ibiary, page 168
    (2) “Abrogators of the quran”by Ibn Al-Jozy, page 35
    (3) Sahih Muslim, sucking chapter, converse number 3670
    (4) The abrogator and abrogated, by Imam Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas, page 125
    (5) “Abrogators of the quran”by Ibn Al-Jozy, page 37
    (6) The abrogator and abrogated, by Imam Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas, page 124
    (7) The perfection in the quran’s sciences, by Jalal Al-Din Al-Syouty, part 2, page 24

    THE ABROGATION –
    WHAT WAS LOST OF THE QURAN

    Continuing the types of the abrogator and abrogated

    (3) Those with abrogated verdict and abrogated letter

    Those are verses that disappeared completely from the Quran as regards their text and verdict

    Al-zahry said:” Narrated Abu-Imamah, that group of the prophet’s companions told him that one night a man wished to recite a verse of the Quran he had memorized , he couldn’t remember it except only ” In the name of Allah the most gracious, most merciful” so he went to the prophet in the morning , he found there other people, who came asking for the same Quran chapter, they all asked the prophet about that chapter, the prophet remained silent for an hour ,then replied them saying ” that verse was abrogated by God yesterday” (1)

    So that chapter was completely abrogated, and they all forgot it, and we don’t know anything about it

    Where is “It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (the Quran) and surely, we will guard it” The Rocky Tract chapter (Surat Al-Hijr) 9

    Abu Baker Al-Razy commented on those verses with abrogated verdict and abrogated letter saying: God caused people to forget those verses completely and remove them from their minds, commanding them to ban reciting them and writing them in the quran, so by time those verses will perish (2)

    Then Why God gave them those verses first, then caused them to forget them later on?

    The Confederates chapter (Surat Al-Ahzab)

    Narrated Sharik ibn Asem, from Zur:” Obe Ibn Abe Ka’b asked me: How do you read the Confederates chapter (Surat Al-Ahzab), I replied: it is 73 verses, he said: I swear by God that it was descended on Muhammad as long as the cow chapter or even longer (the cow chapter is 286 verses) (3)

    Then where all of those verses had gone? That’s why the Muslims considered this issue a sensitive and difficult issue and they are avoiding it

    – Narrated Aeisha:” the Confederates chapter (Surat Al-Ahzab) was recited during the time of the prophet up to two hundred verses, then when Othman wrote the quran, we didn’t find except 73 verses “ (2)

    – Narrated Omer: no one says that I took the whole quran, you never know what the whole quran means,” Actually big parts of the quran had gone “(2)

    So there was a part of the Quran that was lost

    – Al-Syouty said: Omer said to Abdul-Rahman Bin Oaf: don’t you find among the descended verses: “fight as we fought the first time” as we don’t find that verse anymore, he answered him: that verse was dropped among the dropped verses of the Quran “

    – Narrated Al-Hajaj Ibn Jarih about Hamida bent Yunus, she said: “my father when he was 80 years old recited on me from the Quran of Aeisha:” God and his angels are praying on the prophet, O those who believe pray on the prophet and say peace upon him” she said that was before Othman changed the Quran “(2)

    The testimony of muslima: “narrated Abe Sufyian Al-kelae’y that muslima asked him about 2 Quran verses, was not written in the Quran, no one answered him, he said: “ those who believed and fight for the sake of God, rejoice as you are the winner, no soul would know what was prepared for them as a recompense for what they have done”, those verses are not currently present in the Quran” (2)

    Othman he burned six versions of the Quran and kept only one: Taha Hussein said concerning that issue:’ the prophet PUH said: the Quran descended on 7 letters all of them are sufficient and complete, and when Othman burned the Qurans keeping only one, he had cancelled texts descended by God, and burned papers containing Quran verses given by the prophets to Muslims. The Imam shouldn’t abate a single letter or remove any text of the Quran

    Othman assigned few of the prophet’s companions to write the Quran, while he excluded those reciters who listened to the Quran from the prophet ,and he didn’t allow them to write the Quran, therefore Ibn Masoud was very angry as he was the best of the Quran memorizers as he took from the prophet 70 chapters of he Quran , and he was excluded in spite of his great knowledge , Othman brought instead of him Zaied Ibn Thabet who was still young , so Ibn Masoud challenged burning of the Qurans and refused that, so Othman expelled him out of the mosque and struck him harshly and he hit the ground (4)

    So many chapters and verses had been lost from the Quran

    (1)“Abrogators of the quran”by Ibn Al-Jozy, page 33

    (2)“The perfection in the quran’s sciences” by Jalal Al-Din Al-Syouty, part 2, page 26

    (3)“Al-Tahzieb, part 10, page 42-44, and “Abrogators of the quran”by Ibn Al-Jozy, page 33

    (4)“The great turbulence” by Taha Hussein part 1, page 160 – 183

    THE GRAVENESS OF ABROGATION

    The graveness of abrogation in the Quran exists in:

    1- It contradicts with the absolute God’s knowledge:

    God is fully aware of all things before they happen, so if He changed his words following certain circumstances, that means that he was not aware of that incident

    So that concept of abrogation is actually an aspersion in God’s absolute and complete knowledge

    God is plenary in all his characters, He is giving the legislation of perfection, then man can reach that perfection gradually

    2- It contradicts with the mightiness of God

    In the Rocky Tract chapter (Surat Al-Hijr) 9:

    “It is we who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, we will guard it”

    God is guarding his words, so how could he make people to forget them
    That issue is not a simple issue as it affects the depth of faith in the mightiness of God and his capability to guard his words

    Whoever just ignores that fact, he is either anesthetizing his consciousness, or he is aware of that graveness and he is trying to deceive others and that’s a disaster

    3- It contradicts with the precision of the verses

    Mr. Abdul Fattah Mahmoud Idrees wrote an article in Al-Azhar web site under the title: Islamic concepts: “among the characters of the Quran is being a book with précise verses
    And that precision negates the abrogation, as it attributes to God the hesitancy of his adjudgment

    4- It contradict with the presence of the timeless conserved plate in The Big Stars chapter (Surat Al-Burooj) 21, 22:

    ”This is a Glorious Quran, in Lauh Mahfûz (Preserved Tablet)”

    So in the timeless conserved plate, are there the abrogated verses or the abrogators, or both?

    Al-Quortoby said in his exegesis of the Thunder Chapter (Surat Ar-Ra’d): 39:

    “Allah blots out what He wills and confirms what He wills. And with Him is the Mother of the Book:”

    “The Mother of the Book is the conserved plate that is unchangeable and unaltered “

    So who is the one who can change or altar the words of God? And is that change or alternation binding to the Muslim or not?

    – Al-Tabry said in his exegesis of the same verse:” the book is actually two books: one in which God can change or alter the words however He wishes, and the other one is the mother of book” that means that God has an old version and a modified one, could that ever be acceptable?

    5- It conflicts with the quran verse:
    “Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction” (the Women chapter (Surat An-Nisa’): 82)

    With the testimony of the Muslim scholars, there are 71 chapters of the Quran containing abrogation, that represents 62. 28% of the Quran, isn’t that a considerable contradiction? And now the stipulation of that verse is fulfilled by the presence of many contradictions, that fulfills the requirement of the first part of the verse “Had it been from other than Allah” so according to the verse from where was that book?

    The writer Amre Nasef wrote an article in the week magazine published in Cairo on 19/1/2004 about the abrogation issue saying:

    “the Quran is contradicting itself, and its issues are conflicting with each other “

    The Christ said everyone who hears these Words from Me, and does them; I will compare him to a wise man who built his house on the rock

    On what does the Muslim build his life, that life is the most important thing he ever has?

    For what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?

    Where shall man go after death, shall he go to the uncertainty?

    The Christ showed us the way of God and the eternal life

    God gives us the enlightening in our hearts to know the truth which is more precious than anything

    Think of the salvation of your self and your eternal life; search the book to find the truth
    As Jesus said:

    “you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free”

    THE ABROGATION – REFERENCES AND SCHOLARS OPINIONS

    The references used in the issue of the abrogation are:

    1-The abrogator and abrogated in the noble quran by Hebat Allah Al-Boghdady deceased on 410AH

    2- The abrogator and abrogated in the noble quran by Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas deceased on 338 AH

    3- The Islamic encyclopedia – in 33 volumes – published by Al-Sharqua creative intellectual Center, and introduced to by his eminence Sheikh Al-Azhar

    4- The simplified Islamic encyclopedia under the supervision of Muhammad Shafik Ghorbal

    5- Many sites on the Internet; among them:

    http://www.alazhar.com , http://www.alwaraq.com , the site of “almaktaba alislamya “and many others

    In all of those references they are mentioning the authors and the researchers

    Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas mentioned in his book, page 17- 28 the researchers among them:

    – Ibn Katada Al- Sodosy, deceased on 118 AH
    – Ibn Shehab Al-Zohry, deceased on 124 AH
    – Ata’ Ibn Salem Al-Kharasany, deceased on 135 AH
    – Ibn Al-Kalby, deceased on 146AH
    – Mokatel Ibn Suleiman, deceased on 150 AH
    – Al-Hussein Ibn Waquid, deceased on 159 AH
    – Abdul-Rahman Ibn Zaied, deceased on 182 AH
    – Ahmed Ibn Hanbel, deceased on 243 AH
    – Al-Sajistany, deceased on 245AH
    – Abu Nasser Al-Basry
    – Ibn Hajaj Al-Aowar
    – Jaefar Ibn mubasher
    – Ibn Alharby
    – Abu Dawûd Al-Sajistany
    – Ibn Muhammad Al-Nisaboury
    – Abu Abdullah Al-zubiry
    – Abu Baker Al-Shibany
    – Imam Ibn Hazm
    – Ibn Al-Ibiary
    – Ibn Al-Minawy
    – Ibn Al-Nahas
    – Al-Balouty
    – Ibn Salama
    – Abdul-Kader Boghdady
    – Maki Ibn Abe-Taleb
    – Ibn Helal
    – Ibn El- Jozy
    – Ibn Abdullah Al-Ashbily
    – Ibn Hadal
    – Al-Karmy
    – Al-Gaebary
    – Al-Hazemy
    – Al-Aghoury

    – Abu-Gaafer Al-Nahas mentioned the names of 42 Islamic scholars who handled the issue of abrogation , the last of them is Al-Aghoury deceases on 1190 A.H, and after him till now many scholars wrote on the abrogation

    Is it permissible to ask about the religion books?

    People are afraid to ask in the Islamic religion, sometimes their questions have no available answers in the mind of those asked, so they are saying don’t ask, religion should be accepted as such without asking questions

    In the Quran there is a verse

    “Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble” the table chapter (Surat Al-Ma’idah’) 101

    That became a doctrine, so man shouldn’t ask to relieve his mind from troubles
    There is an understanding for some Quran verses that one shouldn’t ask, as whoever asks will put himself in troubles

    There was an article in Al-Ahram newspaper on Safar 28, 1423 AH corresponding to may 11, 2002 G, edition number 42159 ,by the writer Mr. Ahmed Ragab the editor of Sandouk Al-Donia (the world box) under the title :”good proposal “ he wrote about a letter came to him from the counselor; Jamal Al-Din Mahmoud the ex- general secretary of the high counsel of Islamic affairs and ex deputy chief of countermand court he said: in the convention of Islamic research, organized by the noble Al-Azhar under the title:” that’s Islam” it was held on April 16 -18 2002 G; Sheikh Abdul Moa’z Abdul jabar, one of the proselytisers having experience made a strong speech in front of the conference, he proposed to judge the texts of the holy books including the Quran, as regards the included legislations concerning issues as violence, terrorism, woman rights, freedom , justice , forgiveness and dealing with those in other religions

    So Sheikh Abdul Moa’z Abdul jabar had reached a further dimension, he reached to judge the texts of the holy books

    We are neither judging books, nor condemning books but we are just reading, asking questions and looking for answers

    We are reading the Islamic books and exegesis and proposing questions looking for someone to explain to us with sound logic accepted by the sane minds

    The follower of any religion should study all religions and choose the right way and he will be responsible for his choice

    The Bible said:

    “I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, that you may live” Deuteronomy 30:19

    God gave us choices, and man has to study and choose and he should decide and will be judged for his choices.

    But if man doesn’t ask or read and he doesn’t care, he will be like the parabolic ostrich that hides her head in the sand when she faces a danger

    The danger for that for man is what will be his destiny, his eternal life

    The student is thinking well before making his choice for the specialty he will choose that’s suitable for him, there is a responsibility for the choice he makes.

    The Bible says:

    “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death”
    Proverb 14:12

    God gave man the privilege of a mind to think and look for his salvation

    The Bible says:

    “For what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul”?
    Mark 8:36

    “and there is salvation in no other One, for neither is there any other name under Heaven having been given among men by which we must be saved” Acts 4:12

    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” John 3:16

    Man should ask himself what should I do to reach God and to receive salvation.
    He should ask, and study to reach the true way leading to eternal life

    Jesus Christ said:

    ” You search the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me”

    If the Muslim studies the Quran and what is written within it about Jesus Christ; his life preaching and miracles, no man in the whole existence has such a character.

    Tell him: Lord I am astray, show me the right way, and God will respond to you as he said:

    “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.”

    Man should ask, search and know well where he is going. And he shouldn’t stick to things he is doubtful about its veracity, ask and surely God will reveal to you

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